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Dołączył(a): So, 12 mar 2005 19:12
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Jak się traktuje zawodników (i juniorów zarazem) w Szczecinie.

Płacimy wpisowe. Szybkie odbicie piłeczki do sędziego głównego (który de facto pełni tą funkcję tylko z nazwy - nic nie robi). Pytanie do SG: Czy juniorzy muszą płacić 100% wpisowego? SG: Tak. Dlaczego? SG: "Dlatego". (jakże uniwersalny powód)

Rozmawiam z moim kolegą po czym SG pyta się nas czy jest jakiś problem. Odpowiadam, że tak, ponieważ wedle ostatniej uchwały PZSiBA juniorzy do lat 19 płacą połowę wpisowego. Odpowiedź SG: to jest prywatny klub i jeżeli związek taką uchwałę podjął to niech sam płąci. (znaczenie słów oddane, niestety nie mogę przytoczyć dokładnych słów jako, że SG nie mówi za wyraźnie).

Koniec turnieju, SG podchodzi do mnie i krzyczy na mnie, że zadzwoniłem do Moniki Piórko z tym, że juniorzy nie powinni płacić 100% wpisowego. Odpowiedź SG jest coś w stylu, że jeżeli związek będzie wiedział ile kosztuje prowadzenie klubu, remonty (tak poza tym to ładnie wyremontowali, trzeba oddać) to... - i tutaj się wyłączyłem, bo trudno coś takiego słuchać. W związku z czym przytoczyłem taki argument:
- klub należy do związku, turniej jest pod egidą PZSiBA,
teraz uwaga, to jest cytat Sędziego Głównego zawodów w rozmowie z juniorem (sic!):
- c**j mnie to obchodzi.

I to chyba dobrze podsumowuje całą sprawę.

A tak to ja zagrałem fatalnie, natomiast kolega uratował honor Poznania i choć przegrał z Marcinem Nitschke 3:0 to w dwóch frejmach stoczył wyrównany pojedynek (przegrana na czarnej i różowej) a w jednym nie miał szans. Marcin zbudował brejka 63, który był świetnie zbudowany i trzeba oddać słowa szacunku.

Tutaj nie chodzi o te 25 złotych, bo nas na nie stać ale o zwykły szacunek do innych. Można było napisać w zapisach, że Szczecin juniorów nie lubi i pojechalibyśmy do stolicy i było by wszystko w porządku.

Czy ktoś wie, czy możemy odzyskać swoje pieniądze za wpisowe? Gdzie zgłosić się z taką sprawą?

Pozdrawiam, victorec

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Do Moniki Piórko zadzwonił Krzysztof Kruk, a ja zadzwoniłem do Krzysztofa Kruka. Monika aby sprawę wyjaśnić zadzwoniła najpierw do mnie a potem do do SG w Szczecinie.
Sprawa wygląda tak, że turnieje zostały rozdysponowane przed podjęciem uchwały na Walnym. Z drugiej jednak strony przepis wszedł do Regulaminu PORS i jeżeli organizator turnieju 3* nie chciał się podporządkować to należało to określić przed końcem zapisów do zawodów.
W każdym razie niespójność zapisów regulaminowych i myśli organizatora zawodów można było załatwić inaczej przy odrobinie chęci i/lub postawie, która licuje z rangą sędziego krajowego.
11 juniorów zagrało w Szczecinie.


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victorec napisał(a):
Czy ktoś wie, czy możemy odzyskać swoje pieniądze za wpisowe? Gdzie zgłosić się z taką sprawą?

Ktoś wie. Możecie i powinniście. Zgłosić się pisemnie do winnego niedopełnienia formalności. Dokładniej: do Zarządu Związku.

Uzasadnienie: uchwała Walnego Zgromadzenia z czerwca 2009 zobowiązuje władze Związku do obniżenia wpisowego dla określonych grup uczestników turniejów PORS w rangach 4* i 3*. Przez "władze Związku" należy tu rozumieć Zarząd Związku, pełniący między Walnymi Zgromadzeniami najwyższą władzę w PZSiBA. Z turniejami 4* nie ma problemu, ich organizatorem jest Związek, a w praktyce Zarząd.

Organizatorami turniejów 3* są kluby. Z klubami Związek zawiera umowy na przeprowadzenie tych turniejów, na zasadach i warunkach, obowiązujących w momencie zawierania takiej umowy. Umowa taka nie wymaga formy pisemnej, jej zmateralizowaniem jest wpisanie turnieju do kalendarza imprez, o czym decyduje wyłącznie Zarząd.

Dwa przykłady z życia:

Przykład 1. Telefonia komórkowa. Użytkownik A zawiera umowę na dwa lata, mając przyznaną konkretną liczbę (X) minut do przegadania za konkretną opłatę (Y) abonamentu. Po pół roku operator podnosi ceny tej usługi o 50%. Mimo to użytkownik A do końca trwania w/w umowy, a więc jeszcze przez półtora roku, płaci kwotę Y bez zmiany liczby minut X. Operator może zaproponować użytkownikowi A dopłacenie do podniesionej ceny, i jeśli ten się zgodzi, wyśle mu pismo dziękczynne na ozdobnym papierze. To przykład umowy spisanej w drobnych szczegółach.

Przykład 2. Człowiek A, mieszkaniec Szczecina, wybiera się w sierpniu na wczasy w Bieszczady. W maju kupuje bilet na przejazd, docelowy i powrotny. W czerwcu przewoźnik podnosi ceny biletów o 50%. Mimo to pan A jedzie w Bieszczady i wraca do domu nie dopłacając ani grosza. Przewoźnik może zaproponować panu A dokonanie dopłaty i jeśli pan A zgodzi się na to, zyska uznanie przewoźnika. Ale zgodzić się tylko może, nie musi, jeśli bardziej ceni sobie pozostawienie w kieszeni kwoty dopłaty niż podziękowanie przewoźnika. Tu materializacją zawarcia umowy jest zakup biletu, z wypełnieniem do końca warunków, istniejących w momencie zawarcia umowy (zakupu biletu).

Wracając do naszych realiów. Umowa na przeprowadzenie turnieju w Szczecinie - wpis do kalendarza imprez - została zawarta na początku roku. Zmiana warunków nastąpiła w czerwcu. Czynnik odpowiedzialny za realizację uchwały Walnego Zgromadzenia o zmianie warunków, powinien wykonać następujące czynności:
1. wystąpić do klubów organizujących turnieje 3* z pytaniem, czy podtrzymują chęć organizowania tych turniejów przy zmniejszonym wpisowym;
2. klubom, które wyrażą na to zgodę, pozostawić organizację;
3. pozostałe kluby, które nie wyrażą zainteresowania organizacją turniejów ze zmniejszonym wpisowym, odebrać prawo organizacji turniejów (sformułowanie prawne: wypowiedzieć umowę) i przekazać organizację innym, chętnym klubom. Tu już nie potrzeba żadnych dodatkowych ustaleń, bo po czerwcowym Walnym warunki opisujące zmniejszone wpisowe są jednoznaczne.

Pomijam tu jakiekolwiek aspekty inne niż obowiązujące w świetle litery prawa. Pomijam więc ton i kulturę wypowiedzi wszystkich zainteresowanych, ich dobrą czy złą wolę. Kluby, które wyraziły zgodę na nowe warunki, zyskały sobie uznanie Zarządu i zawodników, podobnie jak w przytoczonych przykładach klient operatora telefonii czy pasażer przewoźnika. Niemniej w przypadku odmowy jednoznacznie winnym jest Zarząd Związku, nie klub, który nie wyrazi takiej zgody.

Zarząd założył, że kluby dobrowolnie przyjmą warunki, zmienione uchwałą Walnego. Może zadziałało nieuzasadnione przeczucie, że wszystko pójdzie gładko, może lenistwo w dopełnianiu formalności. Po minionym weekendzie okazało się, że nie we wszystkich przypadkach Zarząd miał rację. Skutkiem jest konieczność poniesienia konsekwencji, tu polegających na zwrocie różnicy wpisowego juniorom.

I to od Zarządu Związku należy dochodzić zwrotu różnicy wpisowego, wynikającej z konieczności przestrzegania uchwały Walnego Zgromadzenia.

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Kiedy pojawi się galeria z turnieju??

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Pojawiła się. A właściwie pojawiły.

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